Who Is Affected By Ignorance? part1
Sun, 02/10/2008 - 17:56 — admin
TEACHER: From a philosophical viewpoint, it does indeed. Shankaracharya urges us to seek liberation from the duality whereby we accept the world and our individual existence to be realities. He urges each of us to remember that we are actually Brahman. Now, the question is this: If this condition has no substance, if it is simply an apparent reality, then why should we seek liberation from it? Even during Shankara’s lifetime his opponents raised this question to him, pointing out that the shastras speak of the condition as if it were a reality. Is it reasonable to think that the Vedic scriptures aim at helping one extract himself from a condition which he was never in the first place? If I’m not really in ignorance and I’m not really suffering, then why should I seek liberation?17
From a slightly different angle the following question must also be raised. Why should a person in knowledge-who sees both the world and the jivas as illusions-involve himself in trying to “liberate” the jivas from the world? Shankara says the world and the individual souls exist as if in a dream state, and that they disappear when one wakes up from the “dream”.18 Now, we all know that no sane man, after awakening from a dream, is concerned about the fictitious dream world or the fictitious characters which he knew and related to while in the dream state. So how is it, then, that Shankara and other teachers, who are supposed to have attained full remembrance and knowledge of their identity as Brahman, are so concerned about this dream world and the dream characters in it?
MICHAEL: But dreams aren’t always fictitious! Sometimes dreams come true.
TEACHER: Even in the case where a person’s dream has some connection with the real world, it is the actualization of the dream that is important and not the dream itself. If a psychic dreams of a major catastrophe, and feels it to be a precursor to an event that will occur in the real world, he or she doesn’t try to save the dream characters, but the real ones.
Even so, this has no bearing on Shankaracharya’s statement, since the type of dream Shankara speaks of has no connection with reality. By his own definition, the living beings are simply illusory. The point I’m making boils down to this: If the individual souls are simply illusions, then, as Shankara himself admits, the pain and suffering experienced by them is also illusory. So why should an intelligent person (who sees through the illusion) be concerned about liberating non-beings from non-suffering?
Hatred and conflict are often rooted in differences between people of different races and religions. We all need to respect people of different races as well as people of different faiths and religions. We need to unite by recognizing our common desire and need for a harmonious society—a society in which we and our children and families and friends and communities can all live our lives in peace and harmony. Regardless of our race or religion, we all want and need such social harmony.MICHAEL: In that case, the whole business of seeking liberation takes on the appearance of a game.
Without respect for people of different races or ethnicities or religions, how can we have a peaceful and harmonious society or world? And without a harmonious society, how can there be the necessary economic development and atmosphere conducive to spiritual happiness and self-realization?
Science of Identity Foundation – Chris Butler Speaks
TEACHER: From a philosophical viewpoint, it does indeed. Shankaracharya urges us to seek liberation from the duality whereby we accept the world and our individual existence to be realities. He urges each of us to remember that we are actually Brahman. Now, the question is this: If this condition has no substance, if it is simply an apparent reality, then why should we seek liberation from it? Even during Shankara’s lifetime his opponents raised this question to him, pointing out that the shastras speak of the condition as if it were a reality. Is it reasonable to think that the Vedic scriptures aim at helping one extract himself from a condition which he was never in the first place? If I’m not really in ignorance and I’m not really suffering, then why should I seek liberation?17
From a slightly different angle the following question must also be raised. Why should a person in knowledge-who sees both the world and the jivas as illusions-involve himself in trying to “liberate” the jivas from the world? Shankara says the world and the individual souls exist as if in a dream state, and that they disappear when one wakes up from the “dream”.18 Now, we all know that no sane man, after awakening from a dream, is concerned about the fictitious dream world or the fictitious characters which he knew and related to while in the dream state. So how is it, then, that Shankara and other teachers, who are supposed to have attained full remembrance and knowledge of their identity as Brahman, are so concerned about this dream world and the dream characters in it?
MICHAEL: But dreams aren’t always fictitious! Sometimes dreams come true.
TEACHER: Even in the case where a person’s dream has some connection with the real world, it is the actualization of the dream that is important and not the dream itself. If a psychic dreams of a major catastrophe, and feels it to be a precursor to an event that will occur in the real world, he or she doesn’t try to save the dream characters, but the real ones.
Even so, this has no bearing on Shankaracharya’s statement, since the type of dream Shankara speaks of has no connection with reality. By his own definition, the living beings are simply illusory. The point I’m making boils down to this: If the individual souls are simply illusions, then, as Shankara himself admits, the pain and suffering experienced by them is also illusory. So why should an intelligent person (who sees through the illusion) be concerned about liberating non-beings from non-suffering?