Science of Identity Foundation:

Basically Penfield's idea was that there was the self, which he called the mind, okay, who was the, the, the person, okay? And this mind, this person, okay, who's he's calling the mind, used the brain. There's just a person and then the brain. In which case, of course, what this means in other words, is that when the person leaves the gross physical body, the brain, then all that's left is the person, right? So then you have a liberated person simply by leaving the body, you have someone who's liberated. You understand that? There's just the brain and then the self and, who's then using the brain, okay?

He didn't know about the mind, that there's a subtle material body there called the mind, okay? That's also covering the self and it is, it is this mind that is somehow hooking up to the brain, see, and using the brain. It's connected to the brain. Or if there is no brain, it connects up with something else, some other part of the body, okay? Like in plants and, and, and amoebaes, and bacterias. There's no brain, but there's obviously some intelligence, uh there's some purpose. Huh. There's some memory, as rudimentary as it may be. So anyway, Penfield made however a statement that maybe he’s saying because there’s no need for there to be a continuation of the memories, therefore, he's saying that all the memory was in the brain, okay? That somehow the brain contained all the memories, that the memory banks are somehow in the brain, right?

So he's saying, well, since there's no need for the memories later, after you leave, therefore he's saying, obviously, you know, there's no real need for those memories after, after this body's finished. So therefore all the memories must just be in the brain and then that’s it, uh. He said, "If the mind", he's speaking about the self here, yeah, he's using the word mind to refer to the self, or person.

"If the mind had any separate awareness while the highest brain mechanism is inactive, it could make some use of a memory mechanism of its own. But the engram for mind memory would have to be redefined. Instead of being the "lasting trace", in quotes, left in an organism by, in quotes, "psychic experience", unquote. It would be the lasting trace left on psychic structure by neuronal action."

In other words, he's saying that somehow right now the mind affects the brain and leaves some, some mark on the brain, okay? That somehow the, the, the mind, the self, he's saying the self somehow leaves some mark on the brain, okay? He's, he's, that's his idea, that there's a psychic experience and that this leaves some kind of lasting trace on the brain, okay?

This is what they're saying memory is, these traces in the brain, okay, and that somehow psychic experience leaves some kind of lasting trace on this physical structure. And that's what memory is, you know, you've got all these lines and grooves, or whatever they are imagining, okay? But he's saying, there's a possibility though, he's saying, there is a possibility he's saying that uh, instead of it being a lasting trace left on this physical structure, the brain, by a psychic experience. It might be the other way around. That uh there may be a lasting uh trace on a psychic structure by neuronal action. In other words, the brain uh brain action, by brain action of some kind it leaves some sort of imprint on a psychic body or subtle body of some kind, okay? And that is, in fact, what it is happening. You experience now through the gross senses, okay, you experience experiences of some kind and this sets into motion whatever neuronal activity, brain activity, right? Okay, so you got all these impressions and so on, and you close your eyes, those impressions are still there. And they'll still be there. And after you leave this gross physical body, all the impressions that you've gotten from this world, from all those neuronal what he's calling uh brain action, okay, they are actually this is actually leaving lasting traces on the mind, which is a subtle body. So Penfield just hinted at the possibility of this. But, in fact, that's what is going on, okay. If he were if he were correct, if there was simply this brain and all the memory and everything is stored there okay, then that's, that's that is it, then there'd be absolutely no explanation for either number one: uh how you can retain memory even though the brain is continually changing? The matter uh, which makes up the brain is continually changing. And, more, uh, even more convincing is the fact that people can have brain, uh, have, have no brain and yet still have memory. Still be "A" students in, in universities, okay?

The very fact that people remember and are so active mentally and they have no brain is obvious that in fact, the memory, the memory, intelligence, uh, all of this is actually part of a subtle material body. There is no other explanation, unless these guys start saying, "Oh, well, maybe it's lower down in the brain stem, maybe it's down around here, or maybe it's down here or maybe it's in your toe, you know." Where will you end? You know, where does it end? Your, your idea is that this, uh, memory is in the body. It's somehow locked away in some little, little uh, like, uh, what do they, uh those computers, uh, they have what do they call them? You know, those computer record trips, right? They’re put in a cassette, or a, a disc, what do they call them?

Audience response: Memory banks.

Jagad Guru: Memory banks, okay. A little memory bank, they're looking for the memory bank. Okay, they're thinking, the, well the memory bank can't be in the brain, because these guys got memory, but they got no brains, okay? Well, maybe it's in the, the lower brain, maybe it's in the spinal cord. Maybe it's at the top of the spine, maybe it's up here, maybe it's right in the back, down there you know. Yeah maybe, uh, maybe it's in the toe. Hmm. Maybe it's in their nose. (laughter) Who knows, right? You going to chase all around and you can speculate all you want.

Jagad Guru Chris Butler - founder of Science of Identity Foundation